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Adventurer  Posts: 240 Joined: 1 Apr 2005     | |
Looking For Group Posts: 145 Joined: 20 Sep 2005   | I agree with everything except: DA's already suck, paladins are WAY more useful to a party and SK's and TK's are way better against the gank with aegis. DA's ARE nerfed and stun already usually gets broken almost instanteously. DA's are used more because people think the panther is cool... which it is. He is also a good 1v1er that's a DA's extent. BDs already are overused they don't need more skills. 1 in every 13 players is already a BD telling me there isn't anything wrong with them. |
Dungeon Crawler Posts: 864 Joined: 11 Feb 2005   | just to get this out of the way.... im sure u meant DC set for mages and not tallum lol anyhow i think in general, fighters are the most gimp class. its all about archers+mages. |
Power Leveler  Posts: 4161 Joined: 14 Nov 2004    | He meant Thallum for Mages cause its cheaper then DC. But both are an option. But I disagree with alot of the statements though. Youra BD, not a DD Class, a second DD to your primary Buff. I know you said you didnt want to WTFPWN alot of classes and that yes, you shud be able to kill some, but u dont see my EE killing people very much do you. To your skills point. Sting is fine, dont want it to fail much? Dont use it on people with Thallum, thats like you wearing Nightmare with 70% resist sleep and then a mage will ask for an immobilisation skill that isnt sleep. So use it on non thallum people, not many people choose it as A-G Armour anyway. Bleed is shafted by Thallum, Stun is shafted my majestic, sleep is shafted by Nightmare..everything has a weakness just know who to attack. DA stunnin you alot? Thats cause your a DARK ELF. Dark Elves have the lowest CON of all classes, so get an EE to give you resist shock...what theres no EE's? thats cause all u ppl refused them a party cause you all wanted vamp rage so no EE could lvl.... WC/OL rooting all of you? Ever herd of Mental Agies? Helps when dealing with casters...OL/WC already have the worst INT and WIT of all the casters, they dont need to be 'ajusted'. I DO agree about Nukers, no i dont think they are overpowerd at all, i think they are fine, but i think the +++Speed robes +++Speed wep +++Speed Tattoo's are going a bit much....A tyrant is the only thing that can attack faster then a mage spamming aura flare. Necromancers are fine, no ajustments needed. Archers have 'GOD' attack because an arrow is launched and will hurt more then a sword slashing. Dont forget that they attack the slowest of all the classes. More power = less speed. All archers get haste 2 / swift pots before they enter the arena, so get yourself some too so you can swing your duals faster. You put some good points and some off points, people think differently obviously so i see things differently. I wont call you a 'n00b' or 'whiner' cause you dont agree with me, you obviously see things different to me. Happy Hunting |
Master Looter  Posts: 1543 Joined: 16 Aug 2004 |
he is on the same server as me :P his view of overlords is different ^.^ This signature is way too big, please resize it to 500x150. i refuse to resize :( |
Dungeon Crawler Posts: 864 Joined: 11 Feb 2005 |
hehe i'd agree with you, seighardt has some godly OLs. |
Master Looter Posts: 2143 Joined: 27 Sep 2004 | nuekrs i agree with ++++++++++++ casting is dumb espicly when robes and SA add double what the fighters get... factor in debuffs land all the time... and a skill called cancel even exisit ina game as buffed dependant at this much less has a 100% land rate. debuffs should be 2 out 3 times on classes with no mdef passives and 1 out of 3 on classes with mdef passives. archer yeah they attack slow but that is only the price they pay for high patk.. they less accuracy thats the price they pay for crit rate... they really pay no price for fast run speed and and 900 range... 2 solutions here change how crit power buffs work... or make bow patk on par with swords then slow attack speed is the price they pay for range... its like pole arms they have less accuracy and slow attack speed but only the same patk and crit rate of swords it is the price they pay for hitting multiple things... and as many can attest 900 range > hitting three people at once. tyrants yes they attack very fast... but while they are attacking this fast they get hit very hard +20% to your damage(-20% to there defense).... tyrants are by far the deffinition of balance in this game every up they have has a down... they want to be tuff then walk slow... want to hit hard walk slow again... want to run very fast hit like a level 20... want to attack very fast have the defense that is less then a robe user. |
How I Mine 4 Fish? Posts: 72 Joined: 30 May 2005 |
I was rolling on the floor crying, HAHA [Edited by HatReD16 at 2:02 PM on 12/8/2005] |
Dungeon Crawler  Posts: 521 Joined: 8 Feb 2005 | I think that if you know you cant win a fight with a certain class then when you see them youturn your character around and run.. or BSOE... or Die lol... If all the classes were equal in regards to one another then it would be a skill fest to see who would win a fight... but this game is not that.. and that would be boring if anyone could beat anyone else... A mage will die very quickly when dealt with the right way with the right class.. granted i dont know what class that is but I am sure it can happen.. the only changes i would like to see to my class are in all actuallity pointless because then my class would never be killed by any class whatso ever. and alll i would change would be two things...I love putting a Bow in my tyrants hands because it becomes somewhat of a machine gun(with fist fury haste 2 and puma on) ive had higher lvl archers amazed at the freakin tech9 i am running around with lol |
Looking For Group Posts: 143 Joined: 21 Sep 2005 | The only thing I can find that is 'overpowered' are mages, because of the fact that they can beat every class with good odds. Archers are not overpowered since they get run over by tanks and even nukers some times when they were ment to deal damage and as a anti nuker. Dark Avengers don't need to be nerfed. We are specifically set up to own Dark Elves because of their low con. Besides, our damage output isn't that great and the more damage we do, the shorter our stun lasts. Archers don't really need THAT much of a nerf, though I may think this way because I'm a tank and they don't hit me that hard. What confuses me is that they have more HP and CP than their dagger counter-parts. What's up with that? Daggers have to get in close-quarters to deal their damage, getting hit on the way and while standing there swinging. Archers on the other hand, are hit less often while their kiting. They run, turn, and shoot, then run some more. You chase, hit them once, recover from your swing, then chace some more. This end up with them hitting you the same amount of times but for more damage. They have the advantage of runspeed, distance, and evasion. Daggers are melee which means they have to run up to their target to hit it, I believe just slightly slower, and evasion, but lower HP/CP. Overlords/Warcryers I haven't dueled before, though I love having them in the party. I've heard that they can deal some major damage and heal themselves while doing it. Tyrant is fine. They sacrifice one attribute to increase another. Think of them as a mobile tatoo. My overall opinion for nerfing classes is: Either leave the class alone and improve everyone else OR just nerf them in pvp but leave them alone in pve. It makes leveling easier. :P |
Looking For Group Posts: 145 Joined: 20 Sep 2005 | Yea, to make archers more diverse, they should make they're range increase from 900 to like 1300. THEN, drop thier crit rate to the same as swords. AND either drop thier accuracy by about 10. Which is a bit harsh and would prolly be too brutal when fighting daggers, but it would make sence, they would still hit mages 100% and daggers would finally have a use. OR instead of the accy drop, drop thier attack speed by about 33%. |
Master Looter  Posts: 2959 Joined: 29 Aug 2004   | Prophets are overpowered. Root gets me everytime +1 Spam Count |
Master Looter Posts: 2143 Joined: 27 Sep 2004 | mages it is simple remove the effect of bsps from from effect spellls, and from cast speed increase... reduce armour cast speed bonus to 7% accumen Sa to 7%... do not let wizards use wit tats(those that hve them get all syes back and have a deal where mammon buys them back full price) wizards are the only class with out a tat restriction... fighters cant touch mem, healer cant touch int... so best to make it so wizards cant touch except via armour sets. remove cancel from the game, find the guy who thought of the skill and excute him and all blood realtives this game is far too buff intensive for a always landing cancel skill. Archers. little more complecated... they need to reduce monster run speed back to C1 levels... get rid of MP use on bows(give em a focus Sa on bows in palce of cheapshot) bascily remvoeing PVE nerfs to them, get rid of the bow reuse timer... now while keeping attack speed and accuracy the same reduce base patk and crit rate to that of a sword. reduce how enchants affect bows to that of a sword etc.... basicly this means for a archer to win in pvp they must kite... it also means that PVe they can kite mobs indeffiantly(except HE) they dont lose much pve damage self buffed or prophet buffed because they shoot much faster with the reuse timer removed... they do lose some full buffed but it is really absurd for them to out damage the class ment to kill them anyways(daggers). |
Power Leveler Posts: 4161 Joined: 14 Nov 2004 | Small thats just rediculous.... Do NOT lower cast speed robe bonus to 7% and wep to 7%..you'll soon be crying when a healer doesnt cast fast enough. Throughtout C1 - C2 Wizards were fine, they had +15% Cast speed on robes and no Acumen SA, THATS when the problems started settling in. Acumen SA is a curse and a gift. A gift to healers and every1 else, but a curse to wizards vs every1 else. Nukers were fine in C1 & C2, No1 screaming their overpowerd. Do not get rid of bsps speed enchancement, again youll complain when a healer didnt heal fast enough..... Ill agree with the tatoos. Nukers shudnt be able to touch WIT if healers cant touch INT (not that we want to or anything). Cancel is GETTING NERFED IN C4 SO JUST WAIT. There will also be a buff to RESIST CANCLE WITH THE SAME EFFECT AS AGIES so everythin will be fine.... So what u want for archers is ALL THEIR DOWN SIDES removed??? A class with no downside is not a class.....Bein able to kite EVERY MOB would mean that no1 would play any other class since an Archer could solo to 75... Think some more before suggesting. |
Site Manager  Posts: 4222 Joined: 6 Dec 2004   | These debates will never be settled. If you want a game where pvp relies entirely on your skill, get guild wars. As it is, L2 is more like a game of rock, paper, scissors. Every class is strong against some classes, while weak against others. While a class may seem overpowered to you, perhaps they're designed to take out your class, somebody with a class they're weak against will think they're just fine. I'll admit every now and again, NC messes up and makes a class that pwns all other classes (daggers in C1, spellsingers / howlers in C3), this class becomes a FOTM for 12 year old kiddies who have nothing better to do than exploit this oversight and be all-powerful then complain when their class is set back fairly. [/cheese's opinion] Lineage 2 WarCry Site Manager |
Looking For Group Posts: 145 Joined: 20 Sep 2005 | daggers had c2 C1 was probably the most balanced chronicle so far. |
Master Looter Posts: 1543 Joined: 16 Aug 2004 | guild wars is a childs game compaired to rfonline :/ This signature is way too big, please resize it to 500x150. i refuse to resize :( |
Master Looter Posts: 2143 Joined: 27 Sep 2004 |
prelude was much more balance bsps amde allt he effect spells to absurd during C1. |
Site Manager Posts: 4222 Joined: 6 Dec 2004 |
C2, that's what i meant. And i wouldn't say C1 was balanced, people just weren't at a high enough average level to pvp as much as they did in later chronicles. Sure you had the odd level 60-70, but let's face it, hitting lvl 50 in C1 was considered OMGWTFSUPERHIGHLEVEL. But then, that's just my opinion, i hardly ever pvp, so i wouldn't know :P Lineage 2 WarCry Site Manager |
Master Looter Posts: 1022 Joined: 6 Oct 2004 | Just because a healer will cast slightly slower isn't that great of an arguement. I have bw light, and that gives me about +10% cast speed, with my +wit i cast heals pretty fast when i have acumen (and in any party the healers will have acumen) With acumen 3 i have about 550 cast speed, with zerk 593, and with dance of con 773. Just 550 cast speed is plenty for my ghetto heals (which i have to spam to make equivalent to a regular heal). If fighters can only get +15% attack speed with both a haste weapon and an armor set that boosts attack speed, but a nuker can get +15% from an armor set OR sa acumen is overpowered. Either make it so a fighter can get +30% attack speed from a haste weapon/armor set or make it so a nuker can only get +15% cast speed from an armor set and sa acumen.
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Master Looter Posts: 2143 Joined: 27 Sep 2004 |
I was fine with healers in C1 before accumen SA exisited and they only had the robe 15% cast speed bonus.. or even in C2 when accumen Sa weapons did not exist. So nerf both to half im healers would lsoe about 15% cast speed... fine by me... so the Se heals slower maybe poeple will actully value haveing a EE in a party for once as a healer because as it stands right now by the time you get accu Sa + wit and robe set a Se can heal jsut as fast as he spams the button which leaves little room for the EE to get a party. seriosuly when 2 tyrants prophet buffed can spam Ss ona EE and he jsut spam heals on himself and stay at max HP maybe the healers cast too fast, id like to see if a tank screwed up and agroed too many things he have a chance to die nto jsut piss of the healer for wasteing MP. The draw back for bows would be only sword patk, and crit rate... yeah they can solo non stop but they do it slower do to less damage. also makes them better kiters but means anything they can not kite will drop them aka the daggers. as it is right now once a archer gets full buffed they dropp daggers before they get close... and then they just run away from tanks before a tank can kill them.... also it makes archers non stop solo class and dagger non stop group calss. nukers accept for Spellsinger can go non stop solo or close too... |
Master Looter Posts: 1543 Joined: 16 Aug 2004 | archers need no help :/ durring sieges they do very consistant high dammage :) unlike mages who lose mana and eventually become usless :P This signature is way too big, please resize it to 500x150. i refuse to resize :( |
Power Leveler Posts: 4161 Joined: 14 Nov 2004 | Small do not nerf robes cast speed bonus. Not EVERY MAGE chooses to have an Acumen Wep. Most Prophets/Bishops/EE's dont use them cause they cast fast enough. I only see SE's with nothing but Homuns.....Get rid of the Acumen SA. I prefer Mana Up anyway. So if they changed it to what u had, id only get +7% cast speed cause i dont choose to use a homun.... |
Looking For Group  Posts: 141 Joined: 17 Nov 2005 | all fighters are already gimped? lol
have u ever heard of a tyrant?...a tyrant can kill an archer no problem...hes so fast and attk speed is soooooo damn fast, he cant get stunned...and does so much fuking dmg... and against mages, maybe it takes more planning and stuff, but lol sleep doesnt work on them...they get close they kill them...over all i think tyrants at 60+ are wayyy better than gladi..but at 75 gladi is better than them ;) |
Master Looter Posts: 2143 Joined: 27 Sep 2004 |
sleep not landing ??? okay so if sleep fails 1% of the time then Versus a tyrant he can cast 3 times agaist a tyrant before he gets in melee range. .000001% chance the tyrant winning is jsut silly. or we are tlaking the tyrant has mental aegis... well the tyrant has the same 1% to resist cancel and only 2 sleeps resist there after but resist it or not is irrelvant as a tyrant... cant be stunned... have you not seen sheild stun? 47 con i get stunned 75% of the time same level Da. which is better then the 95% of the time everyone else gets but it is still quite a bit. tyrant Vs a archer? yeah tyrant wins if it is prophet buffed... if you talking swordsinger and Bd buffs at best it is a 50% propsistion... because the archer has a good chance of just dropping me based off of crit damage. the only reason a tyrant gets a 50% shot is because he has alot more HP and CP then a archer. throw ina dagger with same HP and less CP full buffed the archer wins every time. as i say again cut both accu Sa and armour bonus in half... Why because thats the same bonus fighters get... fighters only get 8% attack speed bonus from armour thats what robes should do for cast speed. fighters only get a 6-8% haste SA thats the same thing accu Sa should do... nuff said... it hurts the healers a little im sorry but it silly to boost nuker DPS 30% on robes and SA alone and only boost fighter DPS by half that much. its ccalled balance... as ive seen it |
Dungeon Crawler Posts: 864 Joined: 11 Feb 2005 | During seiges and mass pvp, fighters are just decoys. They are pretty much the body shields for mages and archers. Kinda like how in that one episode of South Park where they made chef and all the black people human shields for war against Canada lmao(no offense against black people). |
Looking For Group Posts: 141 Joined: 17 Nov 2005 | rofl..well obviously...since every1 noadays rerolls to casters cause their "the best" in pvp...I HATE THOSE KIND OF PPL...wait till c4 and then we'll see whos best..necro for sure but still :P...and if u get stunned Small eveyr single time agaisnt a DA same lvl then ur doing smting wrong, i almost NEVER get stunned during a pvp with an archer or SK, and i mean almsot NEVER, and i always take the up hand from my hp/Cp and my speed and atk speed..plus they start being good at 60+ as a gladi... |
WarCry Choice  Posts: 9268 Joined: 4 Aug 2004    | nerf everyone but the dwarves. in fact, nerf them too. and take out weapons and armor, as well. maybe then the game would be balanced.
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Master Looter Posts: 2143 Joined: 27 Sep 2004 | Sk's dont have stun... archers do but it lands alot less then a shield stun maybe 20% or less. shield stun lands alot more then any other stun in game... if you mean you were play a SK or a archer perhaps you wearing anti stun armour... which explains it because anti stun light armour only gives a 8% bonus to bow patk(and hence is useless to a fist wearing tyrant) or your talking ina buffed match well good for you that you have a EE to buff you with resist shock. I dont because no one lets them in to groups because when a SE can spam battle healer faster then you can blink a eye why do you need to have a EE in the group whos only real power is faster cast speed. just me but maybe haveing the Se act as your parties healer should have a draw back like namely it takes him awhile to get off a few heals... so ina SE group if your tank is dumb or two or three groups of mobs spawn on top of you it should be tuff luck and hope the daggers that jsut faked death have bless rez scrolls. or maybe be a group that uses a EE so in emergencies like those he can heal you faster then you can say wow whats this glowing yellow light around me. |
As i sat next to my buddy Conchobor outside the arena for the umptenth time of that hour we started to make a list of all the problems with the classes or their general being and would just like to share some with you :).
(Archers/Dagger)
Now being a Blade Dancer I usually do atleast par to most classes but Daggers and Archers boggle me so, NcSoft must have really been thinking when they made these 2 power-houses.
Daggers, i truely feel for you, once i despised you and now i pity you :(. A change id like to see come to the Dagger classes is maybe a skill to increases hit rate of specials but a decrease in over all dmg and vice-versa.
Archers, You by far need a good wack with the nerf bat im afraid. Daggers being the class with highest dmg but also the lowest avg p atk, you however, have the best of both worlds. Not only do Archers have a AWESOME crit rate but a GOD p atk. /Golfclap Ncsoft
(Casters)
In all of Aden the most feared DD of all time. Casters of all shapes and sizes tend to excell when fighting ANYTHING. The highest of lvls are frightened by the meer site of a caster in Tallum. Im not sure if i even need to say this....
The Spellsinger, Adens class to be, Spellsingers can demolish melee classes in minimal hits and take a beating with the best of them. SpellSinger real flaw is its unbridled cast speed, when a player line hops and a Spellsinger can cast not 1 but TWO Aura Flares in the Half a second it takes to cross the line and still deal out a minimal 1600 dmg with both combined you tend to wonder what NCSoft was thinking.
Necromancers, Adens other pain in the ass, Necros being a small bit easier than Spellsingers they get the most beautiful spell Anchor.... Not only can necros hit like a freight train they get to have a still target while beating you as you sit defenseless twidling your thumbs as they have their way with you. I suggest Anchor should be switched to a Petrify spell.....
Warcryers/Overlord, Known for the awesome Hp and GOD Drains and Buffs the overlord and Warcryer is a catastrophe waiting to happen. Overlords/Warcryers not only get self buffs and alliance buffs but when you hit them as hard as you can and they can just root and drain you for all the hp back it tens to get annoying. Not only can they root EVERYONE and silence EVERYONE in the general area they can mana sink and Skill reuse delay you till you cry a small pool to drown yourself in.... Only suggestion is maybe a longer cooldown for spells and a smaller chance to land.
(Melee)
To be fair to all classes including the classes I play and others out there i will talk about the usual underdog....The melee :) ( I use "usually" very lightly....).
Tyrants, Adens speed demons, Tyrants are by far the fastest thing you'll ever see for the short time you get to see them as they beat on you like a machine gun. The Tyrants real flaw, where some might deny, IS their speed. I once saw a Tyrant beat a gladiator within a few seconds without even showing a sign of movement besides that of the huge splashes of SS. A Tyrant can be buffed so much and buff himself so much that when they do try to swing they become a stationary person in which their swinging too fast for the game to recognize. Another problem is the Tyrants inherent ability to "Machine Gun" Arrows off at a tremendous and deadly rate. Add this to their awesome crit rate and you have a handful of trouble.
Blade Dancers, No im not going to scream nerf at these guys, as stated before im a Blade Dancer and im terribly dissapointed with where i am going :(. Blade Dancers have the worst mp to buff our parties and can only do 4 dmg skills to try to fend ourselves from these powerhouses. Sting, PBD, Freezing, and Drain all of which we get at around 40 ish and after 62+ we get terrible dances and buffs to ourselves. Give us a new skill already that we can actually use! My suggestion? Maybe another atk thats not bleed related and doesnt get shafted as you try to hit a Tallum wearing class.
Dark Avengers, Being the very best tank for any party Dark Avengers not only have their tremendous HP and P def they get their own little pet to keep them company as they commence to stunlock you in the worst 2minutes of your gaming life. Dark Avengers are not all that overpowered but when 1 can stun you every 10seconds and it land everytime can be quite the upset for most classes. Suggestion, lower stun chance....
Now before you go to defend your class thats been stated or if you have some retort to my findings please think :). Screaming "Reroll" or "Cry More newb" is not exactly what i had in mind when making this thread so speak intelligently :).