How do you think we are making the problems worse? NC has done little to fix the problems as of now. I'm very much against buying adena and such but I think you're taking it the wrong way. No one I believe here agrees with it but we can not control the ads and ads make money for the cost of operating costs not us.

Flipper do u fail to understand the idea of paying for bandwidth? Ads get us money. Money pays for the site, without money the site goes away and not only does the ad go away but so does all of our info and everything all of us have worked so hard for. as sleek said if another place came and offered the same amount of money for us to put up thier ad we would glady remove the ad up now

Has anyone else noticed that since this discussion took place, the amount of Adena ads has atleast tripled?

Its sad, when I came to the site today there were two adena ads up at the same time. I don't see how it would hurt Warcry to stop these ads. They never needed them in the past.

Why exactly would you refuse adds for porn? I'm sure they would pay bandwidth aswell.

So far the reasoning is NC doesn't care so why should warcry care. Let me see, Warcry is a fansite, the fans you give a voice to all decry adena farmers. You give adena farmers one more facet of legitimisy by hosting their adds. The more accepted they appear the more we will see of them and the behaviour they engender.

I guess it doesn't matter in the end. You are just accelerating the process that will (I believe) make this game fail.

Because some of us pay from our own pockets to cover all the costs for months.

If they want to stop this SimsMarket bs, NCSoft can pay some money and buy some adena from these fools. Then they can find out which accounts are related to this SimsMarket. Do they bother? Do they even bother checking which accounts have $$$$$$$$$$$$$ when they are lv 5?? They say they have logs for everything, find out who gives out the most adena. They dont do this. They tell you that they are trying to solve this issue but thats just bs. There was a group of bots yesterday, GM didnt do anything about it even i gave him their loc,name and told him to not to ignore me. I checked 11 hours later.. They were still there.

So this aint going to stop even we remove their ads. We are trying to get other advertisers but its realy hard to find. At least we are working on our problem (removing that lame banner) but NC doing nothing about the big picture.

Your response kind of reminds of DeLorean. That worked out well for him too.

oh my god...

i saw the ads, and i had this UNCONTROLLABLE urge to buy adena,  so i did,  i bought a gazillion adena from the m4dh4x0r$ I30+ group.   the ads are too much for me,  everyone, this is a warning!  look away from the ads, dont be like MEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!  people cant be trusted to have minds of their own, thats what advertising is for,  so we dont have to think for ourselves, how DARE warcry and ncsoft FORCE me to buy adena by putting these ads up here...

its too much for me,  GAHHHHH, theres one again!!!!!  (thud)

personally I appreciate this site and the effort involved I don't care what you advertise, you can ebay in any game if thats what you want to do this is definately not just an NC problem. Saying that it is, is ludicrous.

AS far as that goes if someone wants to spend 300-400 bucks to equip his toon, thats no skin off my ass.

Yes I think the adena farmers are a bit of a problem on some servers, and I hope that chron1 helps resolve some of it but lets face it, it isnt going to stop.

While I understand the position of the factors of paying for this site, I cant help but stare at this ad as I am writing this post. It is 120 pixels wide and about 480 pixels tall...

Edit- Someone linked the image I had here directly therefore I removed the screenshot. But you can see the ad anyway.

[Edited by Duskryn at 12:08 AM on 5/14/2004]

I am logging on simply to post that I do not approve of warcry's Adena, Inc endorsement.

Yes, you can say that you need to get your income from ads.  And you can try to distance yourselves from the content of those ads.  But the simple fact is that you are a community site.  And the vast majority of the gaming community does not approve of Adena, Inc.

Perhaps not the local mods, but someone at warcry.com, has a choice as to which ads they will permit, and which they will not.  They might choose not to take money from a porn ad, as you said.  They should also choose not to take money from Adena, Inc. companies.

By choosing to take their money, and choosing to help them broadcast their service, you are endorsing them.  There is really no way around that.

So what are your suggestions? Its easy to remove the banner. Then what? We get a very slow site, remove most of the images, then all other unique content and then "Sorry but we shut down L2 WarCry because 'we dont have enough "time" to work on it'". There was a popular site for L2 that shutdown few days ago.. We dont want the same thing happening to us.

There is no other way of making money for a huge network like this.

As i said earlier, we are trying to find other advertisers but all we get is adena sellers. We dont even get L2/NCSoft banners on this network.. Thats just sad....... BUt we are working on it instead of doing nothing about it.

I will see if I cannot figure out some advertising options for you Sleek. I'm not saying that you should remove it. I understand your position. Maybe you should start seeking industry advertisers? Companies that make tools for videogame development, etc. You guys are awesome, and to charge any of you with the problems that arise from NCsoft's shortsight is rediculous. You are the good guys, and it is a tough job you are doing. I am not playing retail, but if there is anything I can help you with just let me know.

What I will do, is start asking friends of mine in the industry if they have any ideas. If that is ok with you that is.

You will not like my point of view.

Were I in your shoes, I would rather see the site fold than use the profit of game exploitation to keep my "fan" site running.

Use the money that comes from selling online merchandise and you enable the behaviour. They want you to run their adds due to the success of your site. Don't become a shill.

Here's the link to the ad in question:

http://ads.warcry.com/adimage.php?filename=150x600_01.gif&contenttype=gif

Personally, I think it's shameful.  Sure, ads pay for bandwidth, but why accept ads that undermine the whole purpose for the site (i.e. the game itself).

duskryn...your effort is well appriciated im sure sleek would enjoy this and i would really enjoy to see this goddamn banner off the side of my page because its annoying the sh!t outa me >.<

Look, it's quite simple. WarCry needs the ad revenue to keep the site running. This company is paying them. Is it the perfect solution, no, but they do what they need to do.

How about all of you offended people donate some money to this site?

I will not make any promises. I will ask around though. Or at least get you a listing of emails that you can query for advertisers.

Lineage 2 is an excellent game.
NCsoft Korea must hate us.

NCsoft Austin gets the blame but they can only do what Korea tells them they can.

THis situation is out of control. I just do not want these problems to kill the community. Even if we do not play, it is still a community. Hey, at least keep the irc channels going for warcry so that if we have to move on we can communicate. :)

Hi,

I noticed with great interest that this fan site was promoting illegal game activity (selling of Coin is expressly prohibited by the game's EULA).

Selling of accounts is also prohibited in the same section of the EULA, but would you be willing to host my account trading banners for $200 a week?  We offer a unique service - we buy* accounts from players with enough Adena to set them up for life on a new account and reimburse them with $49.99 at the same time.  Then we sell the accounts on eBay (up to $1500 for a well equipped** level 40+ character, for example).  Obviously our disclaimer asserts that we aren't selling the accounts, we are simply being reimbursed for the time spent playing the game, thereby avoiding the EULA altogether like the Adena selling companies do and making it all legal and above board.

I look forward to your response, please mail any further enquiries to:

Wedon'tgiveashitaboutLineageII@wejustwanttomakemoneyoutofit.com

* OK, so we crack a few accounts with trojans and steal them, but who cares?

** Yes, we do regular raids in groups to kill high level players for their items with which to equip our for-sale characters, as well as camp boss-mobs 24/7 for the rare drops thereby depriving all the other players of a little fun.  And yes we control the economy in-game and make regular players' experiences miserable because they can't access all the content that they're paying for, but hey, that's PvP for you.

[/satire]

Edit:  Actually, my satire falls flat on its face when you consider that IGE already trade accounts in other online games.  How long do you think it'll be before they develop this sideline in Lineage 2?

Example: http://www.ige.com/server.asp?serverid=38&servername=Antonius%20Bayle

[Edited by FantasyMeister at 11:53 PM on 5/13/2004]

"Warcry, why hast thou forsaken us!?"

I'm seriously dissapointed with the warcry site now, we all know that these farmers and ebayers is the possible downfall of this game. Heck, it's the main problem and if it was solved it would probably keep alot of people from quitting.

I understand a website needs sponsors, but adena sellers? Common people! I don't know about you guys but I'd rather see ads for porn then adena sellers. Sure it's not appropriate, but at least porn doesn't threaten to kill our game! For christs sake! I rather see satan himself advertise on the site then the goddamned adena sellers!

For f*ck's sake warcry? What the f*ck were you thinking!? Normally I don't rant like this, but god all mighty this is an outrage!

thought u were serious for a sec fantasy meister ;) (I need some caffeine...)

[Edited by Valhalla at 12:05 AM on 5/14/2004]

I can understand that bills need to be payed. But this site has taken a hard stand against Adena farming, they have drawn a line in the sand about this subject. Only to brush is over :(

sick. sad. pathetic.

i'd rather see porn ads. no, really . . .

I personally have to say I could give a shit if I saw the ads as I use mozilla and block most images from main adspots just happens that warcry uses the same ones so I dont have to block them :) I see the flash banners but thats all.

Use a real browser and get over it block it yourself if your that offended :)

I understand Warcry's position and accept it.
I don't think its fair for the admins to be allowed duel loyalty however. Either their with or against. Otherwise they sound like those players who write out a huge complaint about the unfairness of ebayers etc, and then make a statement like "so I'll buy some ebay adena too to beat them at their own game" or somesuch.

My feeling is that warcry has helped me more than the bots/farmers have hurt me. I do not think I will abandon ship on over to Orphus (I use orphus too) because Im not exactly a big fan of some of Orphus's tools.

So what are your suggestions? Its easy to remove the banner. Then what? We get a very slow site, remove most of the images, then all other unique content and then "Sorry but we shut down L2 WarCry because 'we dont have enough "time" to work on it'". There was a popular site for L2 that shutdown few days ago.. We dont want the same thing happening to us. - Sleek

If there is no one left to read the boards then what good does the ad do you? I can understand the need to wanting to keep your site up and the cost of bandwidth is expesenive but at what lengths will you go? I found out now. And this will be the last time I ever set foot on a WarCry site. Its ashame I enjoyed the info here but I refuse to support any site that supports the destruction of any game.

this game has barely left beta stage and it's already dying... sad..

I must say, at first I was pretty disappointed in warcry when I saw the first 'omfg buy our adena!!!'-ad, but heck, I know bandwith costs a lot of $$ and there is no miraculous solution that pays your bills. However, there must be someone who pays as much or close to that (anything, anything would be fine). a few days ago I saw maybe one of the IGE banners per day, now they're on EVERY page, on every reload and whatnot. damn, did you notice their latest ad even blends in with the warcry site with these matching colors? god... how I hate them... bah

all enraged now, gonna have some coffee and a smoke before I start thinking again  :TONGUE:

posted by sleek on lineage2.com

" I dont think I will tell the community about the involvement of NC in this. Because you guys will start flaming them instead of a fan site that tried to remove these bots, adena farmers etc from day 1 and did not get any support from NC.

These ads were put up after one of our managers received an email from NCSoft.. Thats all i can say. I hate them (NC) for puting us in a position like this but there is nothing I can do about it. We are talking to market manager to remove the banners but they need to do maths etc.. So we are trying to do the right thing but it will take time.

I was very angry when i found out about the ads and I wasnt informed about them (and i am the ASM of L2 Warcry). I wanted answers.. When they gave me a reason, i stopped flaming our managers and started flaming NCSoft.

So my comment "You should thank NC for this" is a very good comment from my view point (i know the involvement of NC). And yes the ads pay alot unlike other who dont pay anything at all.. All this money goes back to network costs not in to our pockets."

-and-

" So its all ads eh? How about you go in the game in to any dungeon, see if NC did anything about those adena farmers. Its their game, their money, their customers. They dont do anything to solve this issue. Us as a fansite do not have to do NC's job for them. You are taking NC's side even they are the center of the problem.. Why dont you ask NC to shutdown that simmarket site? Why dont you ask NC to sue them? Because NC wont do that and you know it."

WOW. You know... I knew that the Korean business group was regulated, and that they are required to operate under certain conditions that are set by the government. And I knew that NCsoft did petition their government to outlaw the sale of virtual items and real estate for real world money and was denied... but this is a certain revelation that I did not expect.

I do not, now or ever, believe that the moderators of this fan-site would knowingly and without pressure, do anything that would jeopardize the integrity of this site or the community. I stand by them, and I hope the details of this incident comes to light at some point.

I think the point of this post is: We should trust in the people that have given their time and devoted their talents to the community for the betterment of the community. Pointing fingers this late in the game is not necessary. What is most important, is to discover what exactly the circumstances are, without causing undo anguish to those who are not deserving.

[Edited by Duskryn at 3:34 AM on 5/14/2004]

Yes it is the responsibility of NCSoft to shut down those sites. But you dont do something equally irresponsible and support them because they arent shut down.

well put pko! I do agree. I am sorry that so many are offended but you know that is the nature of the beast!

BANDWITH IS BLOODY COSTLY. Have any of you ever thought of how much it costs to run this site? I dont know if they use a server farm or not but lets get to the bottom line of how much a T1 is shall we?

T1 is very costly about 800-1200$$$ a month depending on where your server is located and what phone company you use. AT&T has the cheepest T1 thus far that I have seen openly quoted and that would be in almost downtown Seattle for 800$ with a 10year contract dont quote me on that but hey.

Server Costs, Well folks servers cost money. Parts blow out yes it happens cause they run so much under stress, UPS systems, Backups, blah blah blah. It costs alot they do this without charging you a dime! and all you can do is complain!

Apache/2.0.48 (Unix) Least they use a good server and dont use ASP bleh.

Also I do not think that Warcry is supporting them go to google or just about any search engine and you can find adena sales bleh.

If anything warcry is exploiting them! ROFL

Warcry stay cool guys. Cheers :D

[Edited by SlicerDicer at 4:04 AM on 5/14/2004]

"T1 is very costly about 800-1200$$$"

That's odd, because AT&T quoted me $575/mo if I had my own line run to my house. Other than that, my company has installed about 70 T1's across the country and I have set up about 1/3 of those. We have never once been quoted $1200/mo.

And most likely they have a server sitting at a host, and they just manage/maintain it and pay for the bandwidth. The firewall is most likely not even thier responsibility.

Despite the cost, doing something illegal (and then saying that WE cannot do the exact same thing) puts these fruitcakes way past "not-credible". Is there any way you would read a review from www.warcry.com and not think that they are being paid by the people who farm items to boost the game up so that they can continue to advertsise and give money to warcry?

Why should thier word mean anything? Keep in mind that lineage2.warcry.com is only one faction of warcry, but all of them suffer for the simple fact that they approve of macroing/breaking the ingame rules/selling items illegally.

Also I do not think that Warcry is supporting them go to google or just about any search engine and you can find adena sales bleh.

What does searching on google have to do with warcry supporting them?

Dude my figures may be a bit off remember last time I had a T1 personally was in 2001 and it was 1200$ a month but it was not in a major city. I am sorry if my figures were a bit off but still its costly either way you look at it!

I dont know man its not a big deal to me I just blocked the bloody ad I dont see it nuff said, Standard practice to any site I go to often with ads /block :D

Weird, the years and years Warcry has been up without these ads.. and all of a sudden if you take them down "the site will slow down" and whatnot? Backtrack more please. Warcry was surviving before the illegal ads, so you're saying now it cannot without them?